Interview with Michelle Raybourn
November 13, 2005


Q. How did you get started online?

A. I got online over 12 years ago only to do the AOL Chat Rooms. Planned local parties and local lunches once every week. So my interest was purely social.

One day I received a "spam" in my inbox. Back then spam wasn't so bad and we really didn't know what it was. I opened it up and read about Magic Learning Systems and how I could make money selling their product.

I signed up and started selling it. Made money in my first month.

Told my beau at the time about it and he told me how ignorant I was.

So I became a closet marketer.

I was working full-time as a Retail Manager and I would get online to work early in the morning and late at night.

I would read all the other spam I received just so I could learn how they were going about advertising.

I learned about E-groups (now Yahoo Groups) and the networking took off and my days of network marketing were sealed.

Oh, about the boyfriend I hid this from? After getting two checks and not cashing them - I showed them to him one night at dinner. His response? How much money do you need to make this work?

Q. Did you need to work online - financially?

A. Not at all. I was loving my work and my beau pretty much took care of me financially if I needed anything. I was quite comfortable.

My interest of working online was curiosity and yearning to learn something new.

Q. So did you join other programs?

A. At first I stayed with the one program and was on a a mission to learn everything I could.

Learned about online newsletters (Ezines) and how important it is to have one to build your business.

Learned about having your own discussion and marketing forums at E-groups - all to help build your business.

Started to learn HTML. Today I only know how to do HTML by hard coding. Couldn't use a composer if I tried.

Old school and self-taught. I like that.

Well, things took a spin. The Company I was working for closed their year-round stores - despite my store being number one in the nation many times. They become strictly Seasonal.

The beau? Things became pretty complacent with us and we went our separate ways.

I had a great severance package - even won a trip to Cancun because of my sales. I sold that on Ebay for a few thousand dollars.

Now I had about 9 months where I could just play - even without the financial support of a boyfriend.

Then I became an online affiliate/mlm junkie.

I had the spreadsheets for all the programs. Gosh, I was working hundreds.

I'd open every email and follow all of the links.

I recorded how long I worked the program and how much money I had earned. Some I didn't have to work because I found good downline people.

It was crazy - I never slept.

Money was dwindling away very fast.

Q. Today, 11 years later, are you still an affiliate/ mlm junkie?

A. Gosh no. When I moved to Texas in July, 2001 I did that for a change. I love change - it's exciting and the unknown is such a thrill.

But online I also needed a change. I was getting tired of all the affiliate programs. I lost so much money in most of the MLM programs I was in.

When I say on my sites that I have lost money? I'm not saying that as a sales tactic - to show empathy to the prospective client.

I really did lose thousands!

Just working affiliate programs and working hours upon hours trying to build the downlines - it became mundane. The routine was wearing on me.

I needed a greater challenge.

Today I work only a few - mostly traffic exchanges as that's free advertising for me.

Q. So what did you do to change that mundane routine?

A. I saw an ad someone posted in my Newsletter. I read it and visited the site and thought - 'Hey, I can do that!'

After doing some research, I set out to start selling that advertising service.

I was a reseller of it - but was making some good money.

The site was built for me and within a few months that changed.

The person I was working with gave me direct access to the providers - and off I went. That was good fortune wasn't it? I'm grateful to this day.

Built a new site and bought my own domain.

Then I bought a few more domains - all selling advertising services - and set out on a course of 16-hour days of working at the computer.

Seemed like the only time I left the computer was for coffee, bathroom and sleep.

Not a great schedule when you move to a new State and City and trying to meet others.

I went from being the social butterfly scheduling events to an extroverted recluse.

Q. What was your drive during this time?

A. I needed money. Money was my drive. I basically had none and literally survived day to day.

I remember getting a $50 sale and rushing off to the store to buy $25 worth of food.

For the first two years I just survived.

I didn't have a real-life job - I haven't for over four years now.

But the money I was making was enough to pay my rent and bills - and all from working online.

I knew my day was coming - I knew I'd make enough online to live comfortably. I just had to keep working hard to do it.

Q. So are you a trusting person? Do you trust others online?

A. Absolutely not. Everyone has their own agenda and the fact that you never see facial expressions or gestures - you can't read their body language - you simply cannot trust others on here.

Plus I've spent money online for advertising and never heard from them.

I tell my clients to never trust me. I have to earn their trust.

People should be comfortable when they send someone money online. If you are not comfortable, even if there's the slight bit of hesitation - listen to it and don't do it.

Try to make contact with the person you want to send money to - before you send it. See if they answer emails or see if you can get them on the phone.

Know your comfort zone and stay within it. Otherwise you are only setting yourself up for hurt and loss. I am saying this from experience.

In my business now, I've refunded money to people that never answer my emails after they buy - or never answer their phone.

I can't serve others if I can't communicate with them.

If I can't communicate with them I am definitely not comfortable.

One gentleman was refunded about $300 - simply because he never answered emails or his phone. Guess when I finally heard from him? He wrote back angry saying 'People are in the business to make money, not giving it back. How big of an idiot are you?'

He bought again a few months later.

Well, I am working within my comfort zone. I'd rather not have that $300 since I would just be worrying about the client.

On my sites I stress the importance of communication. I invite them to call me or write me. I put my phone number on my site.

You are giving me, blindly, money. Why wouldn't you want to communicate with me? I have your money!

So no, I don't trust others. I do trust a few that I have grown to know over the years. But initially, I hold back.

I used to give my all to those I met. But I've been burned by that.

I think people really have to experience hurt and being betrayed online in order to grow. I don't welcome that for anyone - but it's the best way to learn.

Q. What's your online, daily routine like today?

A. I try to have a set routine each day - but it's difficult. Well, not really difficult. I pretty much go to where my mind is telling me to go.

When it comes to my clients and my businesses - I try to keep a set routine.

I love getting up between 3 and 4 am. That's when I'm most creative and most productive.

I record International Profile on my DVR and The Amazing Race (the repeats on the Game Show Network).

Some mornings I'll start watching those. I just get inspired, especially if the International Profile is about someone that pathed their way to success.

Like Charles Dickens or Sam Walton. Stories of those that have passed - they achieved their success - I get inspired.

If I have some site to build I start there. Then I go to VirtualBanners.us - process new orders and answer client inquiries. That's about 5am.

Then I sign on to my MassiveHits.us - do the same. Process new orders and answer client inquiries.

Now with SubscribeMe.net - I try to get over there every other day. There's a lot of hours sometimes needed for that service.

However my focus is truly on those that have sent me money to serve them.

My largest focus is on my Signups-Guaranteed.us. That is my bread and butter business.

There I receive the most emails and have the most customer support needs.

I can spend hours upon hours over there.

All my clients in all my businesses are important to me - don't get me wrong.

But I have over 900 clients at Signups-Guaranteed.us vs. 300 to 400 each at VirtualBanners.us & MassiveHits.us.

One thing I have noticed about me - if I can't use my creative energies I get frustrated and complacent.

I have to design - build websites and graphics. That's a dream of mine... to become a graphic designer.

So I try, at least once a week and many times more, to put in at least an hour or so building sites.

Q. Sounds like you really need a staff?

A. I have one person I brought on in January of this year (2005). Bobbette - I've known her for years from the Ezine world - helps me with my activations and we have a few ventures of our own.

I wish I had more money to bring on more people. I'm at a point where I need that.

But it goes back to trusting others. I trust her.

Q. How many businesses do you have online?

A. Six active ones right now. I had over 11 in 2004. The ones I have now are all focusing on offering advertising services.

Q. So is that the key to success? Selling services?

A. It is. But you have to know how to do it and you have to know and trust others.

I'm fortunate - I was given the proper tools. Without them - without the right people by your side you would most likely lose money.

I no longer work the 16-hour days every single day.

Some days I'm only working a few hours. But that's only because I stuck to a strict routine of serving my clients. If I have no more emails to answer or orders to send Bobbette to activate - I can take the rest of the day off.

One week I tested how little I could get away with working online. I only focused on client inquiries and orders.

Staying focused I only needed to work between 2.5 and 3 hours a day - and only Tue-Sat. I take every Sunday and Monday off regardless.

Q. When did it change from working 16 hours a day, living day to day with only enough money to pay basic bills - to only working a few hours a day and only five days a week?

A. About a year ago on my 40th birthday - 2004.

I had a goal set when I moved to Texas that by the time I turned 40 I would buy my own house. I worked hard, long (but smart) and on my 40th birthday I put a partial down on the house next door.

I achieved an incredible goal - a dream really. It was surreal and still is.

So I eased up and decided I would be closed every Monday. When I was in Retail Management I would always take Sundays and Mondays off - the two slowest sales days of the week.

I felt guilty being closed Mondays online. Took me months to not want to get online and check things.

A few months ago I decided I would close also on Sundays.

If we were working real life jobs we'd be off two days a week. Why can't we do the same online?

Sundays and Mondays are also the slowest days online. Sundays are typically family days - or recovering from a hot night out Saturday. Mondays people are busy checking emails or going back to work.

Sundays and Mondays I hide my phone. I don't check emails.

But, I do sneak online Sundays to do an Ezine Issue or be creative.

I stress to everyone that we need breaks from online. One can get burnt out so quickly.

With me being in advertising - if I'm grumpy or tired I'm no good to others.

Q. Ok, with six online businesses - when will it be enough?

A. I don't know really. Things keep evolving online. I have to keep up.

My mind never stops and it drives me crazy. I have to play Sims Online as that's the only thing that will stop my brain.

I don't have diversions - no beau or family. I don't have things to pull my mind away from this.

Q. So do you consider yourself one of the gurus?

A. Absolutely not. I haven't made my millions - yet.

But then what's the definition of an online guru?

I do believe I have success. I'm able to buy a home. I only have to work 15 hours a week (that's only if I do the bare minimum required to meet my clients' basic needs). But trust me, I work many, many more hours.

I don't have to worry about money and live day to day anymore.

I am making more money now than I did in Retail Management - even as a District supervisor for Retails Sales in the cellular industry.

But you know, if I had a family - a husband and children - I don't think I would have done all of this.

People online with families are taking a huge risk. Their accountabilities are greater than someone that is single. It's scary really. I give so much respect to them.

No one handed me, really, anything. I had to work hard and long for this. I had to research and learn so much. I had to test things.

I had multiple failures. But I never gave up.

It took me 11 years to get to where I am now - and I've only been enjoying the true financial reward this last year.

Q. I'm curious. You offer a free service - SubscribeMe.net. Why is it free when you could be making money like the other Ezine Co-ops?

A. I get that question a lot.

A few years ago there were two services like that (free). I was building my Newsletter subscriber base really good with them. Then they disappeared.

For months I sat there, researched, looking for another.

I was in almost all of the Co-ops already - joined Bo at 2BucksAnAd years and years ago. He was the first. He's the father of all of that really.

But the free ones really produced the numbers.

One night I thought - HEY - I can offer it.

So almost two and a half years ago SubscribeMe.net was born.

It's a raw looking site really. I used a template I had used in my early days. I put it together very quick.

Today? I'm right at the top at Google with it and I do nothing to promote it.

I get reward from it by helping other publishers. Plus, I get a ton of advertising out of it.

The site has tons of ads, popups - you name it, it's there. It's the only service I put advertising on. But the site gets up to 600,000 hits a month at times.

What works - no need to fix it. Nothing to fix.

I process all the free ads manually. Actually, in all my businesses everything is done manually.

Some people get upset with me when they buy a service. They think it will be activated upon purchase. Some have gone to the extent of telling me they would never had bought had they know I had to get involved and actually activate an order.

That's surprising to me. I give a very personal touch in all I do and that's rare today.

But it's on my sites - I process everything manually.

I think the true benefit of SubscribeMe.net (for the advertiser) most don't get. I need to write an article and have that available to them before they submit.

New Project For Me!

But submitting the free ad - that's not all there is to SubscribeMe.net. They need to open the welcome emails from the Publishers - get to know them. Start networking with them. Look at the other advertising they offer.

The publishers have a lot to offer. Most treat the subscribers like gold and find great deals for them.

So it shouldn't stop with just submitting your ad and having the Newsletters filtered to a junk folder. The Advertisers need to read the welcome emails and Issues - marketing resources are endless. They just need to take the time to read the Issues.

But your original question - why is it free?

It needs to be. I don't compete really with the other co-ops. They still get their sales.

It needs to be because people need something of value that is free. Publishers need more subscribers.

I love having this for others. It's time consuming, but the reward is greater.

Q. Aside from money, what is your reward working online?

A. My clients. Serving them.

I've always been driven by meeting the needs of others - helping others.

When I was the Affiliate Junkie - I had no real responsibilities. I suppose that's why I felt so complacent.

As an Advertising Service Provider I have many, many responsibilities.

My reward is in pleasing them.

When I lay my head on the pillow at night I want to know that I did the best I could for others that day.

That's my reward.

Q. What's your ultimate goal then?

A. Everyone wants to make their millions and get offline.

I suppose that is mine? I don't know. I think I'd go through withdrawals.

If I made my millions - I'd have that social life I yearn. But I know I'd miss this online.

I guess I would hire a staff and keep all of this going. Keeping money coming in and helping others by giving them a paycheck.

Q. Is there something you still need or want to learn about being online?

A. Installing scripts. I can't. I've spent months trying to learn. I get so frustrated I give up and hire someone.

If you know of someone that does install scripts let me know - I need someone that can do it in a timely manner.

Q. Finally, is there one thing you want to do, career-wise, offline?

A. Two things really. Be a bartender just for the experience.

The other to be a private investigator. The thrill!

I don't want a career really of either of those. I just think it would be a hoot to do them.

I still have a dream of getting my masters and doctorate in Psychology.

I'm not that old - I have so much to learn, to do, to live for still ahead of me. That's exciting!

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SubscribeMe.net
VirtualBanners.us
Massivehits.us
TheRaybournEffect.com
FullServicePromotion.com
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